My Debate With A Democrat

I am often asking folks on Facebook to take a break from their meme posts and nonsense to engage me in a real, honest and intelligent debate. I've asked for folks to come on my Youtube Channel to have a discussion. I've tried everything. I've had no takers. I've had people wanting to send me private messages shouting me down, threaten my life, tell me my family should die. I've had friends I've debated with for years go from intelligent friendly argument to angry, nasty meme posts hell bent on spreading TDS like I've never seen only to end up blocking me after a series of my predictions at the time began coming true and his bets and points ultimately getting disproven to the point of him blowing up in frustration and cutting the relationship.

Most recently, I've been seeing the standard copy paste comments and questions from Democrats on my Facebook that honestly have gotten a bit silly, until today. I found someone that wanted to actually get into the thick of his points in an intelligent way in good spirit. He put a lot of time into making his points and so I figured before even reading this, I would honor his effort by answering him in detail right here.

Once he reads my responses, if he wishes to then rebuttal, I will give him an account in my political Tier so that he may add them in the comments as well as any other writes up I commit to this site in the future. Now, I dont know what I'm about to read but from my experience, when someone has this much to say, they aren't just regurgitating CNN quips for kicks in their echo chamber. So, let's dive in.

First and foremost, I'm disagreeing with you in a spirit of love. Take that however you want, but I'm not here to fan any flames. Secondly, we're already starting off with a lie because Tim Allen didn't even write this. This is what you call "fake news" and it shows how easily false narratives can spread on the internet and how very well-meaning people can be used and manipulated into being agents of disinformation.

Correct, Tim Allen didn't write it. im Allen's manager emailed Reuters in 2020, stating unequivocally: "This is not from my client Tim Allen." No public statement from Allen himself has been found addressing this specific post, but his team has consistently rejected the attribution.

Third, the fact that whoever wrote or shared this claims that someone else wrote it means that they don't want the blame for any false information shared. We're supposed to get mad at Tim, which is wrong.

The list first appeared in a slightly shorter form on June 18, 2019, on a local New Jersey news blog (Gloucester City News) titled "A Good List," posted by an anonymous or unknown author. It didn't mention Tim Allen. However, Tim is a well known Conservative. Not to say that by default he agrees with everything stated in the list but...

Fourth, if we decide to engage with this lie of a source anyway, we can ignore the parts that really aren't worth debating, like women being upset, etc. Maybe some, but most probably aren't.

Ok, lets break the list down and find out.

Women are upset at Trump’s naughty words – they also bought 80 million copies of 50 Shades of Gray.

Technically false, because Fifty Shades sold over 100 million copies.

Not one feminist has defended Sarah Sanders. It seems women’s rights only matter if those women are liberal.And then the writer is trying to dismiss anything Trump said as "naughty" like it's something playful, not serious.

Technically false, Some feminists (e.g., Mika Brzezinski) expressed sympathy for Sanders (Newsweek), but many criticized her for defending Trump (Guardian, Advocate). The claim ignores nuance and evidence of selective support, making the generalization misleading.

No Border Walls. No voter ID laws. Did you figure it out yet? But wait... there's more...

Mostly false. U.S. has ~700 miles of border barriers (pre-Trump), and 36 states require voter ID (NPR, DW, Ballotpedia). The vague implication of "open borders" or no safeguards is exaggerated; noncitizen voting is illegal federally. However, we also know that just because something is not Legel Federally, it doesnt mean that not only states may choose not to follow the Federal Law in favor of what they want individually, such as Legalized Weed. Whats more, when you have a Presidential Adminstration intentionally allowing the border to be flooded with millions of illegals and the states also controlled by those of your party, how many prosecuted cases do you think there were for voters voting without ID in those major states? The point is, just because a statement may be technically untrue, it doesn't negate the validity of the argument overall as we both know how the Left operate in this regard. You may agree with it, thats fine and I'm not saying you in fact do, though I am saying I assume we can agree to the buggery in all of that which gives the initial statement credibility.

Chelsea Clinton got out of college and got a job at NBC that paid $900,000 per year. Her mom flies around the country speaking out about white privilege. And just like that, they went from being against foreign interference in our elections to allowing non-citizens to vote in our elections.

Mostly false: Chelsea's NBC salary was $600K (Snopes, Politico). Hillary discussed white privilege (NBC News). Democrats oppose foreign interference; noncitizen voting is banned federally (PBS). The "shift" is baseless. Can you see the pattern here so far? If I tell you the car I saw racing away from the bank was White, but the color was actually eggshell, while technically untrue, the car is a shade of white. Today, the Left want to say "the witness never saw a White car driven away from the Bank and his claims are baseless and without merit". But its all nonsense.

President Trump’s wall costs less than the Obamacare website. Let that sink in, America!

An obvious exaggeration: Wall estimates: $12B–$70B (PolitiFact, Reuters, Snopes). Obamacare site: ~$2B (Bloomberg). Wall far exceeds site cost. However the point is, no website should cost $2b and was an obvious and blatant waste of taxpayer dollars but there was no fuss about that.

We are one election away from open borders, socialism, gun confiscation, and full-term abortion nationally. We are fighting evil.

False. Hyperbolic opinion; no Democratic platform calls for "open borders" or "gun confiscation" (PolitiFact). Late-term abortion is rare/restricted; no national mandate. Ok, sure, however, look at how dramatically everything changed overnight under Biden. No Democratic platform CALLS for open borders. Of course not, because that would be against the people and everything else. No, they dont call for open borders. They just opened them up, held back all border patrol from doing anything about it and then pretended there was nothing they could do about it with congressional support, of course while selling off all of the supplies Trump had sitting and waiting to complete the wall. This is all fact. The problem with everything today is that its all wording. How is something worded, framed etc. The overall statements are true, but the slightest detail makes the claim false. This is also how all of the "Fact Checking" websites prey on perception.

Late Term abortion restrictions:

Alaska, Colorado, Maryland, Michigan and Minnesota apparently lack any Gestational Limits on Abortion and all but Alaska are ran by Democrat Governors. There are more. The point is, yes, it is in fact part of the overall Democrat agenda to enable late term abortion as far as the country will let them go with it. However, its absolutely nothing about "My body my choice". That is propaganda and rhetoric to inspire the degenerates into supporting it. It's actually about the economics of it all. You should check out a book called Freakonomics. There are two. Start with the first one. I think you'll have your mind blown with that one. I did.

There are so many points made in that not Tim Allen post, this page would be a ten page paper to break each one down but the overall theme is the same. 80% truth with just enough exaggeration to enable the Left to say its all false. The last 4 on the list are actually true, however.

Border walls... the thing is that many, if not most Democrats want common sense immigration. Obama was called the Deporter in Chief for how many people he deported. So the Right often tries this. They lie as if the issue isn't important to the Left and that their solution is common sense, and not supporting it means you want open borders. False. The whole concept of a border wall can be replaced by drones with special telescopic cameras. A fleet of small drones can be supported by a larger drone. These can see, tag, and track movement, even giving insights into where they came from and who's helping them. They don't walk 3000 miles. They pay coyotes for transport. Those same guys can easily exploit the obvious weaknesses of walls such as ladders, tunnels, ropes, etc. Not only is it not hard to get over a wall, some Mexicans have taken pieces of the wall as building materials for their houses in Mexico. So... bottom line is strong borders are good. Border wall does not equal strong border.

Listen, I believe that the vocal insane of the Left do not speak for everyone on the Left. If they did there wouldn't have been such a landslide in the last election. We also wouldn't be witnessing the LGB cutting the TQ+ off of their agenda to just be left out of the bullshit. Sadly its always the most degenerate of a group that ends up branding everyone else by association.

Banning Cars or Guns. What happens (seen it for 40 years) is that some commentator says X person wants to take your guns or (insert whatever nonsense here) and people on the right actually believe them with zero fact-checking. And so when magically guns never get taken they don't come to the factual conclusion that they were lied to. No. They falsely conclude that they stopped it from happening. This would be like people on the left concluding that every single gun owner is against any and all sensible gun control and wants mentally ill citizens to be able to buy military grade weapons. I don't think that's the case. We used to put mentally ill people in straight jackets and involuntarily commit them to hospitals. Does anyone actually think, instead, those same people should be able to roam free and buy weapons of war? I don't think so. And I haven't really seen any Leftist propaganda lying about gun owners like that. So what the Left concludes is that the gun lobby is so powerful that, regardless of what happens, those they pay to support them will only ever issue thoughts and prayers. And that's frustrating. No one wants to take all the guns. Yet this lie keeps getting repeated every election cycle because those same commentators on the right think their audience is stupid and will never fact check this claim.

Taxes were originally just a few % just to pay for a war and were supposed to be cancelled once the war was over. Look at us now. The point is, if you look at every socialist country, they have removed all guns from their citizens. Those wanting to be socialist countries have removed all guns from their citizens and look at how they are doing. A socialist country is just a communist country that hasn't taken your guns yet. Look at the UK right now. How is France doing? Gun violence has gone down, how bout the murder rates and knife violence? Think about it. What is the overall agenda of the Left based strictly on what they do, not what they say.

Ordo Ab Chao - Order From Chaos - They create the chaos necessary to justify their form of order. You know, its interesting because for years now I've watched the Left wing Politicans, then the Media then their followers try to brand everyone that doesn't agree with them as Fascists, Tyrants, etc. However, if you look at everything the Left has done for years now, it's all directly out of the Marxist Communist Manifesto playbook to the letter. Those that subscribe to it love it all. They think they are supporting a righteous fight for the little guy and they love feeling like they have a powerful monster backing them up and doing anything it takes, honest or not to give them a better way of life without having to actually do anything for it. As I always say, the demons summons always devour their summoners first. The real magic is in the summoners not even realizing it until its far too late.

Capitalism... The problem with capitalism is that it is a wealth transfer machine that, if left unchecked or unchecked due to corruption, it will simply transfer more wealth to the top % (why the pyramid narrows as it goes to the top or "cap" stone) faster than the wage earners can earn it. Capitalism has already failed in the US and other European countries. The only reason you haven't seen the collapse is that these economies are propped up by cheap foreign labor. Without slavery or cheap labor, the lower class doesn't feel the water boiling. They don't feel it because their low income still buys what they need. But again... no US company can afford to pay its own nation's citizens to produce those goods at the same price. Hence... the system is broken, and why most of what you own says "Made in China" while Chinese people tend to own nothing that says "made in USA". So yes, I would agree that paying for public social programs is an issue. However, it is nearly impossible in a capitalist system where so much of the money is going to the wealthy. Why? Because they (wealthy-who can afford it) don't want to pay and so they pay influencers MILLIONS to convince conservatives that it will destroy the economy. Truth? Not if they paid their fair share. Have they historically done that? No. And so they get the benefit of capitalism as well as corporate welfare and subsidies, but what do you get? You get told that the same kind of help corporations get from the government would somehow hurt you and is just bad. Meanwhile, ask Chinese people how they're doing. They're doing great. But don't take it from me. Ask them.

I agree with everything you said actually, up to the point of China. I happen to have an associate that flew in from China last year as a matter of fact. Chatting with them online or through text, etc, you'll never get the real story. Their phones and computers keep track of everything they do, what they say, the whole nine. There are a LOT of people that are homeless because they said the wrong thing at the wrong time and had their accounts shut off so they couldn't pay their bills. This is a rabbit whole we can go down sometime but overall, you are not an individual in China. You are nothing special. You are nobody. You work for the government and $100k a year there and you are considered wealthy by their standards. There is no innovation or rewards for doing anything great because they dont innovate. They duplicate and mass produce. You're a cog in a wheel and nothing more, keep your mouth shut and do what you're told, or you're literally a spec of shit and cast out. Are they used to it? Is it safer in China? Is it generally better in China so long as you follow the rules? Perhaps. Just dont want anymore than you're offered and you're fine. Dont try to stand out.

Abortion... Again, conservatives manipulate each other with lies about what people of the Left actually stand for. In this context it is a little something you may be familiar with. It's called FREEDOM. Leftists believe that the government shouldn't be interfering in a decision between a patient and their doctor.

Conservatives cry about wanting small government and for the government not to interfere and not to regulate and all this but we clearly see that they want the government to interfere a lot when it comes to their issues. They want to force people. But you're supposed to ignore that because the talking point says you should be afraid that all these Lefty women will abort their babies after giving birth to them; something we ALL agree is murder. But somehow, this political lean means that Lefy women who carry a child for 9 months would intentionally murder it after birth. Only mentally disturbed people think this way and finding a doctor who would do that is even less likely because they all take an oath.

Ok, I have to stop you right here. Leftists believe the government shouldn't interfere with the patient and doctor? You seem to believe that Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath, that suddenly they become righteous, honest and morally high? How bout the Oaths of every judge in the US? Maybe the Oaths of Police Officers? Lets not fool ourselves into believing that an oath somehow puts people on a moral high ground to never be broken by greed, corruption or hell, insanity. Look at the Covid jabs. Untested, unproven, and everyone was flooded with pressure, to get them, over and over. How did that end up? Doctors got the Bullet or the Bag offer with that. Either take the bag of money and go with it, or your career is over. I'm sure I dont need to tell you how much hospitals and doctors made from Covid and how sooo much of it all has been exposed since then. The point is, the majority of people choose greed over morality more often than not and those that resist have to either figure out how to not sell their entire soul while not ruining their entire lives fighting against the machine, or they just give into it knowing they are powerless. Same with most politicians. I watched an interview with a Doctor that initially began providing the jab and such to patients before she realized what she realized and stopped. She said she had a tiny part time practice and stopping with the Covid system cost her 7 figures annually. Thats one small town doctor. Then they censored her and stripped her license. She has spent years getting it back.

The reality is, all all about money. Not you, not your health, not your dreams or virtues. All that is complete bullshit. Its about Money and Control. Everything else is just a means of obtaining it.

But fearmongerers forget that because its simply easier to assume that the opposing party are all monsters that they have to be afraid of.

Sadly, Trump has been shot at twice. Car Dealerships have been blown up, cars vandalized, Charlie Kirk was just murdered. I mean, is it paranoia if they are actually after you? The Left loved censoring Rosanne Barr, Gina Carano, Alex Jones, Tucker Carlson, on and on. That was all fine. Yet, people like Rachell Maddow who blatantly lied through her teeth while raking in $100 mil a year for that incredible job and nobody has lifted a finger. You have one side that so desperately wants the illusion of being righteous and moral to be maintained, they have gotten to the point where even literal murder is ok so long as it silences an opposing perspective. After all of these years of the Left fucking with the Right and the most extreme of the Left acting a form of Gestapo for them through groups like Antifa and the others and you wonder why people are fearful? Really? Something happens the left doesn't like and its time to burn down a city or shoot someone. The Right gathers in forgiveness, unity and faith and tries to rally a new direction while they are mocked, lied about and made fun of. The Right isn't afraid of truth, they are afraid of those believing the constant flood of lies being fed to them in efforts to further induce chaos.

And so they hype up their own side with lies. In all the decades that Abortion was legal, how many babies were delivered only to be murdered after birth? In other words, how much "evil" was actually produced?

Abortion is still legal my friend. All Trump did was put it in the hands of the states. Why did he do that? I believe it was because the economics and culture of every state is different and thus merits a different approach to such an important issue. A Tyrant as the Left love to call him, would have never done that. He would have simply dictated what he thinks and believes and makes the country suck it up, stop fuckin so much, wear protection, use contraception, etc. He didn't do that.

Illegal Aliens... Stats show that they commit less crime than natural citizens because they, besides having morality, have an extra incentive in fearing deportation. However, you will always be able to find individual examples of people who commit crimes of passion or desperation. But when you zoom out and look at crime in general it tends to follow poverty. White, Black, or Brown, there is always going to be a segment of each that will exist in poverty. And if its fair to judge all by the actions of the handful then what does that say about whites? If we judge by this then billionaires would look like perfect angels (except for the ones that are friends with Epstein). The fearmongering is simply a tactic to get you to vote for tax cuts for the wealthy. Period. Every group of people on earth are human. And humans have the same wants and needs. We all bleed. We all want the best for our families. Some of us don't or can't get what we need and therefore find it in other ways, often criminal. And then some of those criminals become the next billionaires and kings. And so they want to control everyone by getting us to point fingers in every direction except theirs.

Sure. I'm not against immigration and most people aren't. However, there is a responsibility to the people in this country to maintain order and prosperity. Have you ever asked yourself why ever Democrat/Liberal controlled countries suddenly have immigration issues on a massive scale? You think all of that is coincidence?

The Left haven't just been fighting the deportation of the would be law abiding immigrants (had they not crossed the border illegally), nooo, they have been fighting the deportation of the gang members, known murderers, etc etc. I understand the argument you're trying to make but the problem is, your party continue showing the glaring and gaping holes in it. Have you not seen the videos of people going down the lines of people working their way through border patrol with military tats from different countries, not just Mexico? That wasn't just about letting a bunch of people in need across the border. That was planting the seed for a much much larger problem and while these politicians are increasing their personal net worths by tens of millions a year while screaming "tax the rich" and "pay your fair share" "defund the police" and all the other nonsense, while the truth is, their donors and Billionaires are already paying the majority of the taxes paid as it is and its the middle class that is literally being ruined week after week...I mean, listen, Capitalism has issues and we are seeing them now. Its a greedy mans game for sure. I would love to find a happy medium so that everything could have the same opportunities to achieve great things, be rewarded while not at the expense of everyone else. The problem is, people are people and power corrupts. The more you have the more you want and nobody truly honest and without sin would ever last in the world of politics.

I appreciate your message and hopefully I've made some points and I hope you feel I've given yours adequate consideration. At worst, we can agree to disagree and that is ok.

Be well.